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Obviously I'm talking about the attitude of the carrier and rider and certainly not repealing the 13th Amendment.
Each relationship is specific to those involved and may not even be seen the same between the carrier and rider. For example, the carrier might see carrying another person on his shoulders as simple exercise rather than a service to the rider while in the same relationship, the rider might enjoy the feeling of dominance or power in being carried and directing the person beneath him or her. Clearly the opposite could also be true in carrier/rider relationships with riders simply submitting to the desire of the carrier to be beneath another person.
When I witness a rider/carrier situation among adults I tend to assume the rider is the one in charge based on my own attitude but what is in the mind of other riders and carriers and why they choose their role is a matter of curiosity to me.
I would like hearing anyone's perspective on this subject.
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I guess the majority thinks of it as just having some fun in a small circle, or it can be detected as the way of impressing the rider (i’m talking about girls now) and attempt to get acquainted or get some contact or smth.
The 2nd opinion is based on real life.
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DenisP:
I agree that for most people it's all about fun even when the object for the carrier might be to make contact or even attempt to impress the person sitting on his shoulders. For example in my teens situations like chicken fights at the beach, in the water often involved boys vying for the attention of the more popular girls and occasionally girls hoping to be the desired partner of a certain boy . Most often this pairing had very little to do with choosing who might win the contest and was more about the riding/carrying aspect.
Even with that said, girls who didn't have boyfriend/partners would often coerce a boy into being her carrier. I was aware of several times when a girl would be sitting on the shoulders of a boy who wasn't physically up to the challenge as there were a few heavier girls in our group. I noticed that sometimes one of the larger girls were more demanding of the boys carrying them. Yes, sometimes a boy would play at keeping his rider on his shoulders, playfully refusing to put her down but that was rare in compared to the rider enjoying sitting up there.
But there were also utilitarian aspects that I have witnessed and participated in .Things like riders basically using the carrier as a seat at an outdoor concert or to carry her (or him?) for some purpose such as avoiding wet ground or simply out of fatigue . In those cases I noticed the rider often being more demanding and choosing to assert control. The attitude of the rider seemed to be assertive even when the the carrier was cooperative.
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I think it depends on the chemistry of the people involved. On occasions like chicken fights in a group of people I often witnessed the riders (mostly and especially girls) to excercise some sort of possessive behaviour when riding their boyfriends, on their faces was written "look, this one's under me is mine". Those were often more demanding than riders without a "deeper" connection to the mount. They excercised their dominating position, some in a playful way, some others not so.
Also I could see from the way they weire sitting what went on. Some distributed their weight on the shoulders of their mount to make it easier. Others were sitting more central, putting their weight more on the neck, making it harder for their mount. All sorts of emotions can be seen on the face of a mount and its rider then.
I myself like to be on control when riding. As I'm not a lightweight I know that my mount always needs to be strong to keep me up there so I know it's not easy and I know my fun is of most importance. And I behave that way then. And to close the circle: if I know my mount well I'm usually more demanding than to a complete stranger I just happen to sit on.
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hvyrider:
Yes it seems obvious that the rider should feel some degree of possession and control of the person he/she is sitting on. Having someone bear your weight and move at your direction implies your control and a feeling of ownership . That is why I mentioned the 13 th. amendment (US constitution) because that feeling of control and ownership is very much like having a slave. For a woman rider, the intimate contact usually isn't an issue because we like being carried and sitting on a man isn't unusual and in some cases a matter of practicality or convenience. But the implied demand of service by the position is also obvious.
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Carrying a rider is, UNFORTUNATELY a short-lived activity, maybe one hour in some exceptional cases, as reported by hvyrider, but usually only a quarter-hour affair ! On the contrary being a servant can be a lifelong 24/7/365 vocation, mainly a self-inflicted one if and when "servant" is used as a mere substitute for "slave". Which is often the case in shoulder-riding activities, which imply, as mentioned by MissBaron, possession and control of the carrier-slave by the rider-owner ..
Therefore it seems to me that it is the SERVANT who happens to be also a carrier, not the contrary. Carrying his Mistress/Master being only a part of his daily slavery. And a very special part indeed, as he is reduced during those rides to the mere status of an animal ... But he will be promoted again to his human status and his menial chores after the ride, if only to provide his riders with all those basic pleasurables amenities that will allow them to relax and recover from the exhaustion of the ride ![]()
equidum
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equidum:
I agree with most of what you say with a few minor additions.
A real slave , as in one person legally owning another person would have no choice in carrying his master who is sitting on his shoulders. A servant has a choice even if the alternative might be unenviable . A true slave is simply property to be used and disposed of as his owner desires.
As such, a servant could be viewed as less than a slave because he chose his role, in this case to be a beast of burden. Regardless of his desires, and even if he enjoys his tasks, he put himself beneath another person. As for the duration of the ride, for the average man an hour would be beyond the limits of most if the rider weighed more than 160 lbs. or so. I have been carried longer than an hour twice, by to different men at different times but one required a rest period and the other was motivated by ego. It almost killed him LOL.
With all that being said, Imagining a world where there was a facility for those who desire to ride on the shoulders of a man who has no choice but to carry me as long and far as I want has a certain appeal . Rather like you might rent a horse or some other beast of burden . The rented carrier would be little more than a utility and the rider wouldn't have any responsibility.
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After my clear opinion a carrier should always be a servant or even better a slave who has to what his wants him to do.
Most carriers are losing after a quite short time their enthusiasm and their will to serve.
So I would not refuse at all using a carrier who is forced to this kind of service.
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Arianeriding: In the past there have been posts about places where men serve others as basically beasts of burden as a requirement and not of their own desires. I have no idea if those stories are valid but I do see the carrier in the majority of cases as humbling himself to serve beneath the rider. Exhausting yourself to serve as beast of burden or simply an elevated seat at times implies ones inferior status to the one her serves. It doesn't matter if he enjoys performing this service, is coerced or forced into it, or somehow enslaved .
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@Arianeriding
Sie haben tausendmal Recht, schöne, herrische Reiterin !
"Blessed are those who serve You, for theirs is the Hell of slavery ....
" .... says the 10th Beatitude ![]()
equidum
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equidum;
I won't argue with what you said , but humbling yourself to serve as a beast or burden or living furniture of your own volition implies not only the superior status of the one you serve but obviously your inferior status to the man or woman you serve , even if for a short duration.
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I totally agree with You, dear MissBaron ! I also believe that such self-humbling is rather easy to asume for a short period, at least for those who have a clear masochistic inclination .. But even for those maso guys, it is awfully hard, close to impossible to asume it on the long term ... The will to be and remain a slave requires two powerful "motors" : Fear and love. Apparently, Your husband had only one : Love. He certainly feared to lose You, but that fear was not an additional motor, but only a variant of his love. If Your pre-nup had threatened him with, say, total irremediable ruin, in case of divorce, maybe he would have really feared such a terrible fate, which would have helped him to perform in all areas according to Your demanding requirements ... Maybe for ever ?...
equidum
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MissBaron
Should a carrier be a servant?
We often see a father carrying his child on his shoulders. Is the father a servant? No!
We also see an uncle carrying his niece or nephew on his shoulders. Is the uncle a servant? No!
Admirer / Groom / Wedding Groom / Husband / Male Lover carrying his Admired / Bride / Wedding Bride / Husband / Lady Lover on his shoulders. Is he a servant? No!
Let us imagine a man carrying another person on his shoulders, and also a human horse being ridden by a rider. Is this man or this horse a servant? Not necessarily, because both have independent wills.
I do not deny the possibility of a servant (employee, laborer, subordinate) carrying his boss on his shoulders, but respecting the contractual conditions and the will (consent) of those involved in the event.
I must mention: attractive secretary can be a rider and she rides on her boss's shoulders (no one is going to say me the boss is a servant).
Thank you very much for your question, it gave me something to think about.
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caballito:
I didn't and don't imagine or contend that there would be any number of situations where choice and necessity resulted in one person sitting on another's shoulders. I was once a high school cheerleader and at various times sat on the shoulders of other cheerleader, both girls and boys.
I was referring to situation that are by choice, coerced or forced by some means . There is no doubt that the person carrying another on his shoulders is performing a service to the person sitting on him and is under at least some strain in this performance. As such even if it's voluntary on the part of the carrier, the rider may and possibly should feel superior, be in charge and perhaps even enjoy a feeling of superiority for as long as he/she is sitting on him.
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MissBaron
Our older brothers, the "equine horses", are often referred to as "real horses" by many.
I think "equine horses" and "human horses" are both "real horses".
When you approach an equine horse, once you are close to him you first tame him, whisper sweet words to him, caress his face and neck, scratch his mane, give him air kisses and cluck with your tongue, reassuring him.
Then you put a bit in his mouth, bridle him, saddle him and finally ride him, once on top of him you continue to pet and tame him.
If you sense he is tired/exhausted/struggling/buckled/collapsed:
1. you push him to the limit, or
2. you dismount him and let him rest until he catches his breath, then continue riding him.
Under these premises, the equine horse and the human horse provide services to their riders, and the fact that they provide services turns them into servants.
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caballito:
I agree with everything you said here. But my point is simply that regardless of the reasons or the opinion of the carrier, The rider is being served by the efforts of the person who's shoulders he/she is sitting on and may, and perhaps should feel in charge and may feel superior. It's certainly not required that the rider see it this way, but for many of us it's a common and even a completely acceptable feeling and enhances the experience.
If I'm sitting on a real horse, my burden on the horses back is quite minimal.
But it's many times greater sitting on a man's shoulders.
As such he consciously serves under strain and in some cases pain while I sit in relative comfort , his legs proving our movement or in some cases he may be an elevated seat such as at a concert etc. It really doesn't matter to me if the carrier sees the position this way.
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